stardustcboy's Diaryland Diary

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Unconventional Sex...Unconventional Marriage...Conventional Love?

*phew*

talk about a LONG hiatus eh? "what the hell happened?" you may be asking. ne'er you fear my dears, your dear narrator is still alive and kicking out here in the world. i don't really have any reason as to WHY i haven't been as prolific as the olden days around here. i keep asking myself why. i think it just boils down to a shift in creative focus...perhaps a lag in creative flow...perhaps just finding different outlets for communication...perhaps having different people in my life to communicate with (whom i can pretty much communicate completely)...maybe it's just all of the above.

i definitely want to get back to writing. i find that sometimes my thoughts come and go so fast i have trouble sort of keeping them, that and they come at odd times of the day when i'm generally NOT at my computer. Jelly brought me here lil tape-recorder to use on just such occasions, so maybe i'll begin putting my thoughts here more often. i think the other reason why is that once long ago Jelly had said that i tended to say what i felt here and not so much in person. in many cases i used this place as a sounding board for thoughts before i felt they were ready to be presented. a place i could vent without worrying so much about what impact the words had, and moreover, could then view said words objectively and see what was valid and what was just pure lameness on my part. but after she had mentioned that to me, i really made a concentrated effort to actually get things on the table right off, even if i wasn't sure what it was that i was feeling, or how i was feeling it or why.

in any event i feel that i have been successful overall, and the end result is that i don't use this space so much any more to jot down deeply emotional issues. that and i'm at a point in my life where i'm rather comfortable in my own skin, with my own decisions, and with my life in general. of course it's always a work in progress, and i can always be better; but overall i feel good about it.

that being said, i still feel the need to write; and sometimes i still need that sounding board, a place to objectify my emotion. as much as i've strived to adapt, there are times when i fear my own thoughts and feelings and the impact they may have on others.

it's an odd sort of thing.

in any event i ramble. that is a discussion for a whole other time me thinks. what i came here to discuss today is the ideas of love, marriage and sex. lots of things in the news and in the world at large have been leading me to ponder...so here i am...pondering...

Unconventional Sex...Unconventional Marriage...Conventional Love?

i'll be the first to say that human nature (and thus my own) continues to baffle me. we're such odd little contradictions sometimes. how we'll adhere to one practice, whilst renouncing another similar practice altogether.

in this case, i'm talking on the idea of love/marriage/sex. swingers in particular, and the overall populace in general.

in the news i've been following the crackdown on polygamy in utah, as well as the subsequent arrest of the polygamist sect leader.

this in particular has been a discussion on the forums of the lifestyle site we belong to. the debate of polygamy vs. swinging vs. monogamy is an odd one to observe. the funny thing to me is that polygamy has been practiced throughout human history, and furthermore, it's still in practice in many places outside the united states. this system of marriage is puzzling on many different levels indeed, but what is more puzzling is the sort of main-stream denouncement of it as a valid system. it's even more funny that many would attack the polygamist sects for marrying underage teens and children. again, this is nothing new. in fact, once long ago, it was quite natural that a girl was married at 16, 15, even 12! usually to older men! we're not just talking in china or somewhere, we're talking right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. why the sudden change? is it fundamentally BAD for a girl to be married that young? generations have passed on that principle and no one has made a fuss until now. why? i'm not condoning pedophilia or anything, i just find it odd. that at one point in history, OUR history, and even now in other parts of the world this practice was and is still common. sometimes a girl was set to be married from her birth, usually to some wealthy person. when she "ripened" she was handed over to her husband and that was that. it ensured success of the family and heirs to fortunes. as much as people may argue that that way of thinking is out-moded, i'd argue that it really hasn't changed all that much in the last couple of centuries.

so why? why now is it bad? from the discussions on the forums of the lifestyle site, even swingers are opposed to the idea of polygamy. even people so professedly open-minded about their sexuality and their marriages still have it in their heads that monogamy is the "right" system of partnership despite the fact that they fuck other people either seperately or together. i find that rather ironic. that someone could shout "hey dave, your wife is hot, i wanna fuck her...you wanna fuck mine?" then out of the same mouth, almost in the same breath say "a group of people who are lovingly committed to each other shouldn't be married because love between multiple people is impossible."

strange no? why? why is that an accepted idea?

my arguement is that multiple incomes in one household would really be great in todays day and age. i mean, two people making $50k each a year is nice, but imagine 3 or 4 or 5? financial options open up...but i get ahead of myself...

it's just odd to me that even the most unconventional of people in terms of relationship dynamics, would still tout monogamy as the end all be all of love.

do love and monogamy go hand in hand? is it impossible to love more than one person? i highly doubt it. in fact, i'd say it's more than likely very possible to love more than one person.

why not?

i will admit that i don't think it's for everyone. if 1 in 3 marriages end in divorce then you could say that monogamy works for 67% of couples. what about the other 33%? what if polygamy works for them? who are we to keep others from happiness? moreover, how in any degree does their relationship model effect my life? why does it matter so much to people?

i couldn't give a fuck if my neighbor has 3 wives and 1 husband. admittedly i'm much more open-minded than most, but still, why would it matter? why does it matter if my neighbor is gay? why is there this massive imposition of a singular lifestyle on so many people? why has monogamy been chosen as THE model of idyllic life? of a perfect life? so much so that even a SWINGER still holds true to it? isn't that a little odd?

it just makes me wonder. is love in terms of lifetime partnerships singular? in that it can only exist between 2 people? what about polygamists? how does that work then? are they just crazy? this whole idea fascinates me.

i think it stems from the fact that i was exploring all of this long ago, wondering if i myself was polyamorous. honestly...i still don't really know. part of me believes that i might actually be completely capable of giving love to more than one person, of caring and nurturing and supporting and loving. i mean, is there, or should there be a limit placed upon the extent to which someone is capable of loving? i'm unwilling to put boundaries on that. i don't like placing boundaries on love. my love for Jelly is boundless, but i feel that love SHOULD be boundless. i'm not quite willing to say "love is this, this and this" and "love IS NOT this, this and this." to me it makes it contrived. it puts a box on something profound and sacred. it's the same thing with god and faith. i feel it's a personal thing, defined by the individual/s involved. if someone wants a gay life-partner, and they want to marry, then i say CONGRATULATIONS!! if 4 people are deeply in love with each other and want to share that in marriage then i say CONGRATULATIONS!!

i think that just like any other relationship it will test those involved. it will require of them a relinquishment of ego and expectation. any relationship demands this of us...friendships, family, lovers.

maybe i'm just a big fucking hippy at heart. :-P

in any case, i am often puzzled by the ideas of conventionality and unconventionality. furthermore, i find it fascinating what conventions some unconventional people hold on to. pick and choose i suppose, there is no right or wrong answer as long as no one is hurt i guess.

it's just funny that our society actually enforces ways of living via law. i find that crazy. homosexuality is illegal, marriage between two men or two women or multiple men and multiple women is all illegal. why? how does it impact my life in a negative way? it's just baffling.

there are a lot of positives that i can see in a multi-person relationship. as i mentioned before the financial aspect is good - triple or quadruple incomes under one household (maybe it's a tax reason that it's illegal?). multiple people available for child care and child rearing. this is of course under the assumption that all involved are mentally/emotionally healthy and well-adjusted to this lifestyle. but if that was the case, you can see how beneficial it could all be. why not? especially in this day and age where a 2 person income can barely afford a house, and two working adults can barely find time to raise children. this system may actually work to the benefit of mankind, who fucking knows right?

it's just interesting to see the various evolutions in sociology. a group of people who stretch the convention of monogamy by practicing swinging. allowing their partner pleasure with another person outside the pair. giving their partner a "hall pass" to go out and have a little fun. is there a difference really?

you could say that with a swinger it's "just sex" but is it? where does the line blur? i think this in some ways opens up the marriage to possible trouble. what if the playing partner started to develop feelings for the other? are they then not allowed to see the other anymore? wouldn't that in some ways breed a resentment between the playing partner and their significant other as well as breed resentment between the other and the significant other? it seems like this would cause a pinch. then what? does the partnership dissolve? if the playing partner was allowed to explore those emotional feelings for the other, would it breed resentment in the significant other? it seems to get a little messy, doesn't it? what if the other and the significant other are involved as well, as in the case of a woman, her bisexual husband and his bisexual play partner? if they all share in the play, and all share a common emotional ground, what then? is it too complicated? or is it complicated because those involved make it complicated?

again, does the boundary create the complication? does it then force people to make exceptions, and define "gray areas" which then leads to further definitions and parameters...which in turn lead to more and more and more? until there's so many what-if's and probably scenario definitions that it's just a big mess?

does love require that boundary? is the simple fact that love is so undefinable what makes it so terrifying? do we place these definitions because we fear it's boundlessness? we fear being lost in it, or to it so we place certain stipulations on it? saying love is x, y and z; but it is not d, e, and f. when in reality it is a-z and then some?

hypothetically what would you do?

if you were married and your wife developed a crush on one of her co-workers. she admits that in some situations the banter with said co-worker becomes a bit more than flirtatious, and that she could see the possibility of a sexual encounter. would you let her explore that? if so, and she developed further emotional connections with the co-worker what would you do?

it's a hard call. i'd imagine a swinger would allow the physical intimacy but would deign the emotional. going in i'd imagine the wife would keep a certain level of distance. but can these things really be helped? again, that's sort of the indefinable nature of the beast, so to speak, right? you draw a line on it, but then you find yourself at that line, and then moving beyond it. what then?

is it better to not draw a line at all? or perhaps be adaptable enought to allow some shifting of lines to occur?

in my own experience, when Jelly was involved with another man, i really forced myself to sit down and contemplate these sorts of things. first off, it's not like i hadn't had my own and considering my nature and all that i espoused as to my lifestyle and such, i had to live up to it, and live by it. to let go and allow her her own emotional/physical/sexual freedom. i also had to allow her the ability to keep him in her life, in whatever role she deemed. it was hard, and it definitely was a taste of my own medicine to a degree, but i believe and hope that she would allow me the same...and i would allow her anything her heart desires, even at the cost of myself. THAT'S terrifying...but sublime too...

i think that fundamentally we all want to be the singular and most important aspect of our partners lives; but the hardest part is accepting that we may not, and that we are in fact an ASPECT of their lives, and like any other aspect just as apt to obsolescence and change and growth as anyone or anything else. furthermore, it's hard to acknowledge that we don't OWN our partners, that we can't MAKE them do things we don't want them too. this is the terrifying part of love...the powerlessness we feel in the face of it. that our partners, our lovers, will do as they will despite how deeply we feel. i think the most we can hope for is that they do as they will with you in mind and at least keep you in the loop. i think that that is the most profoundly humbling aspect of love.

i think that if people can find that, whether with a singular partner, or multiple partners or partners of the same sex...that's a good thing. i think that humanity could do with some humility in the face of love right now. absolute acceptance.

i think too that all this is why it's hard for people, even swingers, to imagine a multi-person marriage/relationship. the fact that it's so hard to humble oneself before just one person, to relenquich power/control to one person, and to accept/love/understand one person is a challenge enough...imagine adding another to the mix? then it's three people who must do it...or four. but i wonder if it would be easier for each additional? it's a very tricky dynamic to contemplate indeed.

i think in the end i wouldn't necessarily rule it out. why not? as i said in the forum topics on the subject, if two people love you and you love two people...why not?

i can learn to love a man my wife loves. if it means sharing her, and sharing with her, and being a part of her life then i'd do it without hesitation. she had taste enough to choose me, he must be pretty cool too, right? :-P

anyway, i'm rambling i think. it's just been rolling around in my head a lot lately. seems like this topic is getting a lot of attention all around...in the media, in politics, in the sub-culture, amongst some of my friends.

in the end i can't really say. i don't think there should be limits placed on love, just as much as i don't think there should be limits placed on god. i think it's possible, and like any other relationship, difficult at times; but also like any other relationship it can be profoundly rewarding too. i'm not going to rule it out, why not? let them marry, let them love, let them be happy i say!

more to cum!
~B-)

11:42 a.m. - 2006-09-21

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